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 Two Scoops: August 11, 2008 columns
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Kristoff St. John
Twists and turns
by Nita
For the Week of August 11, 2008
It's finally safe to say that The Young and the Restless has turned the corner and is on its way to better days.
Yay! I think it's finally safe to say Y&R has turned the corner and is on its way to better days. As I watched the week's offering, while I may not have been glued to my screen through every single storyline, I'm happy to say that at least I can only guess at what might be coming next. Which was definitely not the case in the not so distant past when you could usually predict what was going to happen with both eyes closed and a finger in one ear.

My favorite part of the week was the wonderful montage at the end of Wednesday's show. And I was also thrilled at the return of the scene-accompanying music. That music was the one thing that always gave a Y&R scene that extra little something that pushed it from ordinary to special. I can't count the number of times one of those heart-tugging tunes caused me to start dabbing at my moist eyes, or warned me something diabolical was about to take place.

Thinking about twists and turns immediately brings to my mind the great and powerful Victor Newman. If message boards were the only indicator, I would guess Victor was the most hated man in all of soapland. Boy, is this character and the actor who plays him ever taking a beating. Guess that means he's good at what he does. Me, while I can't condone everything he says or does, when it comes to Sabrina, I really don't blame him for slamming the door in the face of family and friends. Because with the exception of Adam, Jana, and toward the end, Nick, most of the warm bodies now hovering around wringing their hands in guilt or distress are the same people who rebuffed Sabrina at every turn. Nikki and Victoria especially seemed to relish every drop of blood they manage to draw from Sabrina's soft skin with their wickedly pointed tongues. Now that she's gone, they want to walk around with long, sorrowful faces, murmuring stock I'm sorry sentences. So what her friends flew a long way to attend her memorial. Aren't these the same friends who couldn't free up the time in their busy schedules to help celebrate her nuptials? Yes, it would have been nice if Victor would have told Michael and Jana not to waste their time putting together a memorial he was only going to cancel, but really, if he'd done that, couldn't you just imagine the outcry which would have ensued? It was rather appropriate that their time together ended much the way it had begun and continued nearly to the end. With just the two of them.

So, it's anyone's guess as to where Victor is headed and why. Besides on his annual vacation, I mean. Is he just going off somewhere to mourn in private? Or does he have a plan to avenge Sabrina's murder by finding and dispatching Walter? If that is his intent, will he find that he's met his match in Walter and his mob minions? Who, then, will ride to Victor's rescue? Paul? J.T.? Nikki?

Finally, Victoria recovered her tongue from the cat that stole it and managed to mumble her apologies to the dirt covering her former best bud's bod. Was I satisfied? No, but it was better than her never having made them at all. I'm just so sick of Victoria and her sad sack countenance; just about everything she does annoys or exasperates me. I understand she's allegedly grieving, but too often she acts as if it's impossible for her to stand upright unassisted. And this stuff with Sabrina is not an isolated occurrence. She's been acting like a flower wilting in the hot heat of the sun for much too long now. I know she isn't Heather Tom, and I don't even expect her to be, but I do expect the character of Victoria to regain some of the Newman steel that used to be part of her backbone.

With several people pointing a quivering finger of blame at her, I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear Nikki moan, like that Charlie Brown song: why is everybody always pickin' on me? You did this, Victor yelled, nearly yanking Nikki's arm out of its socket. I wish it were you heading to the morgue with a tag on your toe. And even though he hardly needed another excuse to be abrasive and obnoxious, Skye's death gave Adam a reason to add his voice to the discordant chorus of Genoa Citians blaming Nikki. Even Jill is looking at Nikki with venomous eyes of accusation because David killed JiMin. Jill is always quick to accuse, but slow to apologize. Doesn't she owe Jack at least a grudging one for the way she harassed and accused him?

Anyway, while I don't feel sorry for Nikki, I don't really put all the blame on her for her flim-flam man's murderous mayhem either. Standing by her lying, gambling man might not have been the smartest choice she ever made, but it's one many other Genoa City women have made before her. But, even though it's not all her fault, like some in GC are accusing, her hands aren't completely clean either. We now know JiMin had a mob-ordered target on his back and was likely the real reason David came to town, not as he claimed, because he was in hot pursuit of Carmen's murderer. But, Nikki did wind up being the reason he remained. Jack fired him. Nikki hired him and was stubbornly determined to keep him, despite Victor demanding she hand him his walking papers after that kiss seen round the net. Early on, co-campaign manager Karen warned Nikki about Chow's questionable character. But Nikki ignored her too. Just as she poo-poo'd Paul when he pointed out Chow's possibly murderous past along with his gambling vice. So, if not for Nikki and her mule-headedness, Chow would likely have hit JiMin and kept on stepping and for that she does have to accept some of the blame.

But Nikki isn't the only one who deserves a slice of the unpalatable blame pie. Look, here's a piece to place on Victor's plate, first for letting him hitch a ride on the Granville acquisition express and second for hiring him to manage Jack's campaign. Or was that Victoria and Brad who let him creep aboard the Granville barge? If so, then they deserve a bite or two for their part. Dru had Chow's number from the very beginning. I guess they should have listened to her. Even Sabrina deserves at least a little taste of pie. Even if Victor never warned her directly about Chow, she was not a stupid woman. She witnessed more than a couple of acrimonious exchanges when Victor was bellowing about Chow being a dangerous, unscrupulous man who could not be trusted. Not to mention the fact that Victor clearly hated the man so why, then, no matter how sick she was feeling, would she ever ask to ride with him?

It looks like David's death may be treated like a GC dumpster, used to collect the miscellaneous whodunit trash no one knew what to do with. Unsolved deaths of JiMin, two Chow ex-wives, a former daughter-in-law, and finally a cheating poker player? Put them all on dead David's doorstep. Heck, the scribes could have made a clean sweep of things and written that rather than Jana's tumor making her kill Carmen, David could have done that too for some obscure reason we're just not privy to. But did David really kill Skye? I would imagine he might be just a little bit ticked after losing all but the shirt on his back at that last poker game, especially if he realized Brad and Skye were in cheating cahoots together. But why would he bury her near Nikki's horse? It's the middle of summer. Obviously, someone's nose was eventually going to lead them to her smelly remains. So wasn't that like leaving the cops a dot to dot picture connecting the two of them together? Another thing. If he was angry enough to kill her, and in such a brutal manner, why is Brad still stomping around with all his body parts intact? Where exactly did David do all that dismembering anyway? And what's the point of carefully pulling out teeth, slicing off head and fingers, then carelessly leave her Harvard ring in the hay. Why did he still have it and how did he lose it anyway? Did it fall out of his pocket? Maybe it wasn't David at all, but Walter who killed Skye with a plan to frame David, although I can't imagine why Walter would want to since at the time Skye was murdered, David hadn't yet refused to perform the ordered mob hit. Oh well, I guess we'll never know the answer to any of those questions now. All I'll manage to do is drive myself crazy asking them.

Over the past few months, I actually managed to find things to like about Adam. I admired the way he took Victor's vicious verbal browbeating over Heather then bravely stuck to his decision to continue seeing her anyway. And I found it quite enjoyable watching him soften toward Sabrina even grow to admire and defend her. Unfortunately, the part of him I don't like never seems to be far beneath the surface, as he so proved with his catty comment at the hospital. Yes, he stayed at the hospital throughout Sabrina's ordeal while his Newman half-siblings did not, but he really could have kept that comment to himself. For one thing, he may be the only Newman offspring still in the Will but that means nothing. With Victor, one could wind up on his bad side and out of his life and business with a single misstep or unthinking word. And Adam should know this because it almost happened to him over that ill-researched acquisition.

I'm sure Adam probably knows you can usually catch more flies with sweet, sticky honey than acidic vinegar, but I guess he isn't trying to catch any flies or win the most loving sibling prize. Victor was probably still bouncing up and down on that raggedy blue migrant worker bus on the road to wherever he's going while Adam was already testing out the CEO seat for softness. I probably should hold it against him, though, the way he's trying to take over Newman things so quickly, but then again, why wouldn't he? Nick has repeatedly made it clear he wanted to forge his own path, and wants nothing to do with Newman Enterprises. As for Victoria, she too, leapt off the ship. In fact, I clearly recall her chortling with glee, rejoicing with Nikki, about how mother and daughter at Jabot were going to bury Daddy's Newman.

What is Neil, you might be asking right now, chopped liver? Well, as far as Adam is concerned, I guess he is. Or at least, he's not, as he told Neil, a Newman. True, he's been a faithful doormat for the Newman family for decades. But it isn't as if being shoved aside by a Newman is a new and different occurrence for Neil. I remember Victor told him straight out one day, of course he'd choose son Nick over Neil. Nick, too, has pushed Neil aside before. And I'll never forget the snotty way Victoria booted him out of his place in the executive line and forced him to bow down to Brad. Even Nikki has showed how little Neil means when she wanted the Newman Board seat Brad and Phyllis helped him get. So Adam reminding Neil his last name wasn't Newman was really not un-Newman like behavior. Now, had it been someone else, I might feel a pang of sympathy for Neil, but as often as he condescendingly puts his women in their proper place beneath him, I don't feel sorry for him at all that he gets to see how it feels to be passed over and pushed aside. By the way, I thought that a rather interesting twist, the two Newman kids being out of the will with Victor unable to rescind his rash decision. Even if they wanted to, can Nick and Victoria do anything to stop Adam from declaring himself in charge? Adam doesn't know as much as he thinks he does, so you just know he's bound to end up in over his head and need rescuing.

Now, while I'm on the subject of Neil, am I the only fan who'd love to feel the sensation of their palm against Neil's cheek? Is he one of those men who only want what he hasn't yet had? Not too long ago, allegedly lonely Neil rushed off to New York to pledge his love to Karen. Now he's got Tyra the annoying ensconced in his apartment, whipping up homemade meals and tying his ties (suddenly the man has forgotten how) and he seems to now have little use and even less desire for Karen? As for Tyra, she's obviously one of those women who will be whatever kind of woman she thinks the man in her sights wants her to be. And was that not one of the most inane conversations when she told Neil Devon is like his Mom? That's not good, Neil answered stupidly. Well, newsflash Neil, you dolt. Tyra shares the same blood as both Yolanda and Devon, so maybe you ought to beware of her as well. With Tyra and the singing sensation, Ana, Neil seems to think he has a perfect little family. Maybe he hopes to help mold Ana into the obedient and perfect daughter Lily didn't turn out to be, with Tyra the ambitionless little woman, perfectly willing to let Neil bring home the bacon for her to burn up in the pan. I think he ought to step carefully, however, because for some reason Tyra just doesn't strike me as a happy little mommy. For one thing, she sure seems awful snappy and snippy with Ana sometimes. Sometimes she looks at that girl with the same sort of sneer she bestows on anything Karen says or does. I don't know, though, maybe that's just the warped view from my critical eyes. As for Tyra, in spite of all her boasts about taking good care of Ana, without the help or hindrance of a responsible man, Tyra is painfully obvious. That woman knows a meal ticket when she shakes hands with it. Perhaps she should get exactly what she's so clearly after. Neil. Then let's see if she later wishes she had wished for someone else. And Karen, even though there doesn't seem to be any other available man for her, I'm tired of the rather callous way Neil treats her and I wish she'd kick his flip-flopping behind to the concrete curb.

I've made it clear Chloe and her antics are the least entertaining thing on Y&R for me, but I forced myself to suffer through her every scene without leaning on the FF button. Who knew determining DNA while the baby was barely the size of an egg was possible. Why, such a medical advance might well put Maury out of business. No more dramatic: you are NOT the father while baby Mama runs off the stage to throw herself onto the floor and scream hysterically. Just the fact that this DNA is being determined now, when always before we had to wait until the baby had shown him or herself 10 or 11 months later, makes it almost a given that somehow, Cane will be presumed to be its Papa. Which we already know is 100% impossible given that Chloe was already impregnated with her booty call's seed before she even clambered aboard a drunken Cane's masthead and took herself for a ride. So, how is that possible, you might ask? The only explanation I can come up with so far is that the real Daddy is somehow related to Cane. Billy perhaps? Of course I'm tossing handfuls of belief suspension at this whole storyline because really it certainly seems to make the case that DNA is not at all the surefire and reliable method of detection the world thinks it is. For Lily and Cane lovers, it could certainly end their romance because unless someone else comes along that catches her interest, Chloe will likely never stop hounding and harassing them. Whoever said the only thing left after a nuclear blast would likely be cockroaches hadn't met a woman like Chloe.

Is that Jana a big blabbermouth or what? Only Jana would unhesitantly walk up to a customer, coffee pot in hand, and pour them a brew while nonchalantly asking their opinion about something so intensely personal as how he felt about his daughter's finance's alleged love child to be. Tsk, tsk.

See why one should be careful what they wish for. Okay, I didn't exactly ask for Colleen, but I managed to conjure her up just the same. And now I'm sorry. Even though she repeatedly told anyone within 50 miles of GC she wanted nothing more to do with Adrian, so why does she now have her trousers in a twist because of Amber and Adrian's inebriated one nighter? Is she still in love with Adrian, or is she just disgruntled because he moved on too quickly with someone else. The pot has already gone to the skillet and called her nasty names, but is she really any better? As I mentioned before, I haven't forgotten what she was doing for a short while with both J.T. and Adrian. But now she looks like she's about to sample what used to belong to her so-called best friend. I thought it was one of those unwritten rules that best friends did not do each other's men, even if they weren't their men any longer. Seems like she might be exactly the same type of slut she accused Amber of being.

A couple of things that made me go hmmmm. One. If you were a loving daughter and son-in-law with a Mom who is a recovering alcoholic, and one still recovering from a near overdose of morphine, would you leave your bottles of booze in plain and tempting sight?

Two, talk about an ill-advised decision. You switch identities with a man wanted for murder. Obviously, judging from his reaction, Michael's father, the one pretending to be him, not the actual father, didn't know the real Lowell was wanted for murder. So presumably, he's just been going along living his life normally, not hiding from the law or anything. So why haven't the FBI or any other agency, been able to find him for all these years?

When the real Lowell is located, and I'm presuming he will soon show himself, I'm very curious to see how Gloria handles the reunion. Does she still have dormant feelings for the long-absent Lowell? What will that mean for her and Jeffrey's relationship? Even though I'm curious about that angle, I'm more intrigued by how Michael might deal with his Daddy. For starters, Lowell is going to need a good attorney to extricate him from the murder charge. And who better to help him than his estranged son, Michael, who, of course, will grudgingly agree, though I'm sure not without a bunch of groaning and moaning. I'm looking forward to this one.

Just wondering. Nikki and Victoria are both leaving Jabot. Why doesn't Nick go to them to help buy Jack out of RSM? Then it will be a family company. Well, except for Sharon, but I presume she got in on Jack's dime and tossed none of her pennies in the pot, so if he's out, she's likely out too. Of course, I guess Jack can't be bought out if he isn't willing to sell. And there are still plenty of reputations in Genoa City he can ruin, so why would he want to go? I must admit I'm kind of looking forward to watching him trash the little that's left of Jill's.

Well, that about empties my brain, so I'll step aside so my fellow fans can weigh in on what they thought. Enjoy!

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Brenda - Lest we forget, Nikki cheated (this time) on Victor. Victor tried to take her back but rather than her leaving David, David continued to con her and she felt he was better than Victor. Before you lose more viewers, please bring Sabrina back. Victor really loved her and this was his time to get it right with his kid.

Bajangirl - I was really looking forward to Devon's aunt and cousin coming to Genoa City because I thought that for the first time in a long time he was going to get his own storyline. Bryton is a damn good actor and it shows even when all he has to do is drop one-liners on Chloe. But since the first day I've been more and disappointed. Their presence is clearly about providing a forum for a child singer and giving Neil a new woman. The other upsetting thing about Tyra and Ana's introduction is I suspect it will spell the end of Karen either completely or as we know her. Karen is a classy sophisticated woman who has never felt the need to compromise herself to keep her man. I was pleased that she didn't try to hide that she had suggested Tyra move out. Alternatively, the story could be Ana's attachment to her while Tyra moves in on Neil, but I fear that would involve Ana singing about her feelings. Finally, I like the fact that Cane and Lily haven't immediately fallen for Chloe's crap and that not only have they demanded a paternity test, but they're aware she might try to tamper with it. I know it won't happen, but I'd prefer it if the test would show he isn't the father and Chloe still wouldn't let it go. She's clearly crazy enough to do something like that, and considering it's happening to Chris Rock right now, it's not unheard of, not to mention it would be a change from the switched DNA cliché.

Judi - How many times has Victor gone missing? Victor is missing. Big deal. He'll come back. Victor and Nikki divorced and married other people. Big deal, both spouses dead V and N will remarry. Victor has a fight with his children. They'll reconcile too. Neil is torn between two women and treating the one he supposedly is committed to shabbily. What a shock. Do the writers just pull out the old scripts and hand them out? Change a name or two where appropriate and go at it again?

Anne - Goodbye, Sabrina - was hoping she would turn out to be the wicked witch of the west and try to murder Victor for his money and he would be saved by everloving Victoria and Nick. Ah well. But its great that the writers are moving into the real world. We actually see the body moved to the morgue and the coffin lowered into the grave? Get even more real, writers, and bring Y&R into the actual world. Let's have days that don't run for weeks and stop meeting at that boring coffee house where a real exec wouldn't be found dead drinking mocha with the college crowd.

Barbara - I absolutely hate the Chloe storyline. The claiming someone is the father thing has been done to death. Come on Y&R get rid of the riff raff and come up with some interesting stories for characters like Lily and Cane. Also, Daniel is a little too self-righteous for me. He and Amber deserve each other.

Kamal - The week of Sabrina's ultimate demise was a taste of old-school Y&R. Great performances all around, scenes that keep you glued to your seat. Excellent. Too bad all the sorrow and sadness I felt about Sabrina finally passing due to her injuries was turned to absolute fury and anger by that harpie, Phyllis. Am I the only one that yelled at the screen, in colorful language, for her to shut up? And the fact that she kept going on and on about how Jack (and Sharon) didn't care about Sabrina, how could they have done that to her made me despise that woman even more. Wasn't it Phyllis that was cry-baby's, I mean, Victoria's, cheerleader in this whole Sabrina/Victor thing? Didn't she tell Victoria she would feel the exact same way and do the exact same thing (boycott the wedding)? Wasn't she also cold and rude to Sabrina and talked behind her back at Reed's Christening? For Phyllis to act as if she was a best gal pal of Sabrina's is a crock. Granted she should be mad at Jack for going behind her and Nick's back about that article. Still she can't say she gave more of a flying fig about Sabrina than Jack, Sharon or Nick for that matter. The writers really need to remember that she has no high-horse she can ride.

Brenda - I agree with a little of what everyone else stated about where the Y&R storyline is going. I have watched Y&R since the show's first airdate and when the Victor and Nikki storyline first began I thought it was a good thing. However, now it has been beaten to death. They have brought John back as a ghost and then as an aspiring actor. Why can't they just bring Sabrina back as her twin sister that her mother gave away, and allow Victor to fall in love with her while he is out on his quest. This would satisfy everyone and make for an excellent storyline.

Rose - I've been watching this show for about 15 yrs, and I've been very disappointed with Sharon and Nick's character. They were one of the best storylines out there. The new writers were able to completely ruin Sharon's character. Sharon always had integrity and good morals. She was always a dear friend to Victor. Victor has always been there for her, and has always treated her like his own daughter. And now, Sharon has become someone with no morale principles. She's become one of the most uncompassionate characters. Very disappointing.

Carol - Like spoiled food, the Victor- Nikki romance is past its prime. The character of Sabrina was such a refreshing change! The writers really dropped the ball here. Why couldn't they have trimmed some of the old dead weight instead, like one dimensional J.T. or even Vicky? Sabrina's character had so many more layers which could have been explored and enjoyed. Tell the bonehead who killed her off to get her back. Now!

Jamie - You talked about all the insignificant characters on the show, and not a mention about where you see Phyllis going. She is the most interesting character on the show, and her pairing with Nick is only stale right now because the writers aren't writing for them. We have to go through characters like Chloe, the ruining of Cane by pairing him with the bore known as Lily, the whole Winters family, the abusive Victor, the whining Victoria, Nikki the victim and concentrating on the Nick journey. Phyllis gave both characters life, as the great Michelle Stafford always does. There is no actress that has that chemistry with everyone and anyone like she has. I wonder where Phyllis' journey will take her, and I hope it's side by side with Nick for a very long time.

Rita - I long for the days when Nick was with Sharon and they were a happy family with Noah and Cassie. If they were going to kill someone off, why not Phyllis. I cannot stand her character. Chloe was another candidate for the ax.

Pamela - Not that I have much sympathy for Nikki, but blaming her for everything that's happened (probably the high gas prices too) is going a bit far. David is responsible for David's behavior. Yes Nikki was wrong to kiss David, but it was at a time when Victor abandoned her and she was grieving for the son she thought was dead. So he has to share some of the responsibility for what's happened. But of course, he thinks he can do no wrong. I do not particularly care for Victoria, but her comment to Adam was justified. Adam shouldn't have made the comment that he was the only one who stuck around the hospital. It wasn't like Nick and Victoria were out living it up. For a while Adam was acting human, but now that he knows Nick & Victoria are out of the will, he can't help but rub it in. Separately, I hate the Lily/Cane/Chloe storyline. I also hate the Gloria/Jeff storyline. It's way past time she was found out. If these 2 storylines pan out like I think they will, I'll be another former Y&R fan.

Brenda - I've been watching for 27 years. You know Adam is the only one in the will now. Could he be a wolf in sheep's clothing? Even if he's Hopes son.

Dee - I was so hoping the writers would listen to the outrage of fans and save Sabrina at the last minute, but no, she is gone. Put Victor with anybody but nutty Nikki. So done with that old pairing. Y&R finally had a root-worthy couple and bam, all gone. Cane and Lily are so boring. Chloe is a nutcase and the writers could have come up with so much more other than another baby story. Please spare us. I like Amber and Daniel but I have a feeling the writers will mess that up too. Nick and Phyllis are old. Jack and Sharon/Barbie doll are unrealistic. Vicky/J.T. scenes, boring. I like Michael and Lauren but they are not shown enough. I have to agree with you about the favorite scene of last week. Jana and Sabrina. Made me cry like a baby. I liked them as friends and will miss that too. I am quickly losing interest in most things Y&R. There was hope with Victor and Sabrina, but now the future looks like repeats from the past.

Maryann - I really like Elizabeth Hendrickson as Chloe; I think she is given snappy dialogue, but this storyline with her claiming she is carrying Cane's baby is dumb, just like Cane's character!

Triny - Killing off Sabrina is just one of many mistakes Y&R has made and these mistakes will further disrupt this show.

Christine - This Chloe thing about carrying Cane's baby is stupid. Victor he is getting so obnoxious with his ways because of his money. Life is not made that way, and to cut and interfere in his ex-wife's life and disinherit his two kids is disgusting. This is why the world is in such a state because men are running it.

Irish Judy - Let's see more of Gloria and Jeff and the rest of the Baldwin-Fisher clan. I'd also like to see Phyllis keep being snarky and turn Nick into a guy with backbone instead of a wimp. I'm waiting for Adam to do something really bad to cause him to lose favor with Victor (just for a little while; long enough for Victoria and Nick to be put back into the will.

Mary - I don't look forward to the blame game Victor will play for the next six months. YAWN! I guess I'm in the minority when it comes to Daniel and Amber. I really like them together and want them to reconcile. They're young and fun and a little bad. And since Daniel knew exactly who she was before they got involved, I think it's a little out of character for him to react so strongly. Phyllis and Nick need their storyline jazzed up. I love them together but, like Cane and Lily, they've become pretty boring.

Lizzie - Need some loving from Nick and Phyllis. I love Cane and Lily but Daniel and Lily is my first love and would love to see them revisIted. Now this is a triangle I would love Cane/Lily/Daniel, talk about chemistry. By the way it seems the writers dropped the story of Adam going after Phyllis, this is mouth watering.

Mary - Am I going crazy? Heather tells Adam that Vic talked about Victor's will? I watched the episode twice and didn't hear anything like that. Is there more going on with Heather than we realize? She had no problem taking all of the credit for solving the JiMin murder even though, as far as I could tell, all she did was lug around the box of his possessions. Why is it that as soon as I get to like Adam, he becomes a real jerk again? Hey dude, it was Sabrina who died, not your dad. Don't plan on taking over the empire just yet.

Toni - Why does Chloe think Cane would want her just because she is preggers? This storyline has been done about 5,700 times and it is boring! Nikki can go drink her self silly for all I care. Please do not put her back in Victor's life yet again. We've been there and done that. He deserves better!

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As always, I appreciate everyone's comments! Back in a week.

Two Scoops is an opinion column. The views expressed are not designed to be indicative of the opinions of soapcentral.com or its advertisers. The Two Scoops section allows our Scoop staff to discuss what might happen, what has happened, and to take a look at the logistics of it all. They stand by their opinions and do not expect others to share the same view point.
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